Looking to the East|Changing the role of Iran from passive to active in the world order/5

According to Tasnim news agency Tasnim News Agency, in a case titled “Silk Road Partner” to evaluate the strategy of looking to the east in the foreign policy of the Islamic Republic of Iran. and the bilateral relations between Iran and China. The contents of this file include detailed conversations and notes related to this strategy. The fifth part of this program has paid attention to the economic dimensions and the common perspective of the relations between these two countries. In a conversation with Majidreza Hariri, President of the Joint Chamber of Commerce of Iran and China, he discussed the macro-economic prospects of the new China, the regional and bilateral issues between us, and the dimensions of the future cooperation between Tehran and Beijing.

This dialogue is explained as follows.

.

Tasnim: Before the conversation starts, explain about the common room. What happens in the common room? What measures does the Iran-China Joint Chamber of Commerce take in developing relations between Tehran and Beijing?

* * The Chamber of Commerce represents private sector companies, but the joint chambers are one of the arms of economic diplomacy. The Chamber of Iran and China is a chain, including the Ministry of Foreign Affairs’ Deputy Diplomacy and its sub-groups, which include embassies and consulates, the Trade Development Organization as the custodian of the country’s foreign trade policies, and… we are moving this multifaceted forward together.

In the common room, the public sector and the private sector are not separated from each other; It will be examined which sector, where will play the most useful role for the national economy in the field of bilateral relations with China. Somewhere it is necessary for the private sector to do some behavior and talk, which the official policy of the government does not consider expedient. On the contrary, the private sector should be silent, let the interests and speech of the private sector be promoted by government institutions. We are part of this chain that shapes the economic relations between Iran and China. Since the government known as the reform government, Iran’s room has been created; Whether it is the government of reform, Ahmadinejad’s government, Mr. Rouhani’s government, Mr. Raisi’s government, as well as other government departments that are not governments, we have good relations with everyone.

We are in touch with everyone as a part of this chain and one of the main actors, and we move in harmony with each other; Maybe we have differences of opinion with each other in expert opinions, but we raise it in the same institutions that we have with each other, that which was decided to be implemented, we are also subject to that which was approved for implementation.

Tasnim: Iran-China Joint Chamber of Commerce has been formed since around 1979; If you agree, let’s read about the milestones of this collection. What were those milestones? When did the Chinese have a warmer relationship with us and when was the relationship cold?

** Wherever The governments of Iran and China communicated with China based on their “personal taste and point of view”. The relations have become colder. Iran-China Chamber, because according to its constitution, it is responsible for the development of relations between the two countries in the field of economy, it has not failed in any way. The behavior of the Iran-China Chamber is also very close to its corresponding institution in China, which is the China Foreign Trade Development Council (CCPIT). It is good. This relationship between the joint chamber and the CCPIT, which is a Chinese government body, has nothing to do with its governments that come and go. It is related to China’s party governance and basically has no foreign members.

CCPIT is where all Chinese companies have one or more foreign partners in the world, which includes less than 12 partners, one of which is Iran. In West Asia, it has no partner except Iran, we are one.

Out of 10-12 members, 3 American members, 3 European members and three or four It is a member of Australia and Japan; Iran, despite the size of its own economy, because of the good relationship we had with them, we established and removed the relationship. We have direct cooperation with the CCPIT of the whole of China and about 16 members of the sub-provincial group of that memorandum that we work with.

Also with the Chinese government that It is the Ministry of Commerce, we have a very close and good relationship with the economic department of the Communist Party of China. In cities like Shanghai, which are an independent city, that means it is not a province, a city alone is the size of a province, because in China, for example, municipalities are the local government and we have good relations with them.

Next month, we will host a delegation from Shanghai Municipality, which will connect with Tehran Municipality, and we, as a private sector, are not going to do a big job with the municipality. But we are connecting them to Tehran Municipality to advance one of the national programs, the fact is that we are not trying to make a show for the advertising room, but we are one of those links in the chain of governance, and fortunately, our credit is in the eyes of the government of Iran and in the eyes of the government. China has a very high reputation, much higher than a chamber of commerce in Iran or China.

.

Tasnim: There were different periods when the Chinese showed favor to Iran, and there were also periods when they were disappointed. Explain.

**Fortunately, the relationship between Iran and China, both in politics and economy It has been a relationship that has been growing regularly. If you draw its relationship diagram, it has less drop points and if it is too small, small teeth will be created. Because in the end it is a strategic relationship between the two countries and after the revolution – now I won’t say before the revolution because it is not very relevant – China is the only country in the world that all the presidents of Iran have visited, and the only country in the world that all the presidents have visited. A president came to Iran is China.

something like this We have no other place, it has not been with any other country that all our presidents went there after the revolution and all the presidents of China have come there. The first visit of our president to China was when he was the supreme leader of the president, he had a trip to North Korea and China, from where this relationship was formed, and after him, there was the architect of Iran-China relationship, the late Mr. Hashemi, which is the right term. After the eight-year war in the field of construction, subway, power plant, dam and other infrastructures, we started cooperation with China, and it has always had this cooperation.

Viewpoint A government has been more inclined to the West, sometimes the government has been less inclined to the West, but despite the fact that the officials of that government may not have been willing to develop relations with China, our relationship has developed. . Because building relationships has two parts, one part is political, one part is natural. It means that Iran’s economy and China’s economy are complementary economies. We are an economy that exports energy and raw materials to the world, and China sucks energy and raw materials like a big vacuum cleaner.

Iran’s economy needs machinery and technology for import needs, China is the largest exporter of technology and machinery in the world. More than 120 countries in the world have China as their first trading partner. If the Islamic revolution had not happened, today our first partner would be China. From the political point of view, Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates are in the Western camp, but they are their first trading partner, and in general, in our region, until 2014 and 2015, China’s first partner in the region We were the Middle East and the Persian Gulf, now we have become the fifth partner, they have all overtaken us. If you are Saudi Arabia, which is totally subject to the policies of the West in the world, but when you want to sell oil, in the end, who buys 4 million, 3 million barrels of oil a day from Saudi Arabia? China buys, no one else can buy. Russia, first of all, we share a border, secondly, we are a political partner, even more important than China, and thirdly, we have common interests and we do joint military and security work in the region, which we do not do any of these things with China, both sides of the president And their political officials sit down and say every time that we have to grow the economic relationship, you have heard this many times, for 15-20 years now, this relationship has never exceeded two and a half, three billion dollars. Because our economy is similar and not complementary at all, and in a sense we are competitors.

Iran wants to buy machines, he also will buy; Whether in buying or selling, we are our competitors. As a result, this economic relationship is not formed, no matter how much the two parties have political inclinations. The economy does its job. To give another example, the most famous period when they say that Iran’s relationship with China has turned cold was during the administration of Mr. Rouhani, this is my opinion. The record of trade between Iran and China is 51.8 billion dollars in 2014 and has not been repeated. That is, we had an upward trend in trade until 2014, and then we fell, and that was during Mr. Rouhani’s time. The economy does not listen much if the politician and political relations are good, it will help development, but even if they are not willing, the economy will do its job.

Tasnim: One of the important events and turning points between the relationship between Iran and China was recently the memorandum of understanding on the strategic cooperation document between Iran and China, which is a 25-year understanding. It is well known. A major part of this document is economic and what has been published in the media, including the Chinese, in this entire document and in a 25-year period, they want to invest about 400 billion dollars.

** Of course, Western media have mentioned this in two articles and in two different Western media. This was propaganda. In that document, except for 25, which corresponds to 25 years, you do not see any numbers in this document.

Tasnim: It was thought that a relationship was going to be formed, and of course, good steps were taken and this document was prepared in Mr. Rouhani’s government. I would like to first give your account of this document, how it was formed, and even the role of the common room itself in this matter, so that we can delve deeper?

** Now maybe it is not expedient to give a very detailed account of the formation of this memorandum. The bottom line is that the Iran-China Chamber played a role and it was very colorful. The origin of the story started from a place where we entered a period when the government of that time did not have much faith in the relationship between Iran and China, and if they had a western alternative, their first priority was to let those westerners move forward. For example, if you remember, the then minister expelled the Chinese oil company from an oil field; He said go out until someone else comes, Total is standing in line. After the JCPOA was signed, the President of China came to Iran; He was the first president of a legitimate country in the world who came to Iran in January 2016. It is usual that when the president of China goes to a country, it means that China’s relationship with that country warms up, now the way of dealings with Iran and the type of talks that were held. Even though when Mr. Xi Jinping went to the office of the Supreme Leader, the leader there said that we should work with China for a long time, that is, they welcomed him completely, but in any case, in the body and in the implementation, etc., it made Iran’s behavior very controversial. It was not liked by the Chinese. Now it is known that the Chinese left Iran in disgust.

** It doesn’t matter if it is intentional.

Tasnim: Was their perception negative?

** The perception of the party was negative; You have a guest come to your house, your hospitality model is not for the guest; It doesn’t matter what you want, what matters is that the other party says you didn’t pick me up, I came to your house, you didn’t pick me up as I expected.

One ​​part of it is that we In Iran, we do not know the protocol; It has nothing to do with the Chinese president. Maybe the president of the United States will come here one day. We don’t know protocol, our down-to-earthness, friendliness and hospitality are a model of this. The world has protocols and frameworks, accounting rituals; You can’t do whatever you want, we have a habit of being late even in our most important meetings, they don’t like these things in the world. These are general defects and I will not go into details.

.

As the Iran-China Chamber, we realized that we should Let’s do something for this cold relationship. May God have mercy on Mr. Asgrawaladi and may God reward him for all his services to the country. One day we were sitting here to do something; You have to go somewhere above the government and speak. Through their intermediaries, for whom it was possible to reach the Bayt, we proposed that you introduce a person who minus the governments is a person who is more than the governments and they know that this relationship Iran and China have an official in Iran who is subordinate to this government and does not leave that government. One government’s taste is eastern, one is western, these should not affect and we should maintain this process with China, which led to Mr. Larijani’s trip and the responsibility of Mr. Larijani as the person responsible for the bilateral relationship between Iran and China.

Tasnim: Was this liked by the Chinese or not?

 ** We had a good memory of the reception of the Chinese in the history of Mr. Larijani’s trip in 1992, where Mr. Asgravaladi and I were in their service. In any case, Mr. Larijani and his character were a respected character, the opinion of the common room was also positive on the presence of Mr. Larijani and suggested to the politician. In short, Mr. Larijani went to China with the message of the leadership and the message of the then president, which was important for the Chinese side. In the sense that you have both the message of the president and the message of the leadership.

Anyway, Mr. Larijani was the speaker of the parliament, the speaker of the parliament in the world. He is considered the Speaker of the Parliament, he is not a very high official, but we saw that 6 ministers, including the Minister of Foreign Affairs, went with him on that trip, the Chinese side felt that the totality of the Iranian government is willing to renew the planning for the relationship with China, and he is a reliable person. appointed as the eyes and ears of the system.

They went there and had a very good meeting with Mr. Xi Jinping, it was the second or third of March. Because of the necessary work, I could not make that trip to Mr. Larijani, even though we had a seat on the flight, I could not go. His trips back and forth had many good achievements.

They returned from China between the 4th and 5th of Esfand, on the 28th or 27th of Esfand of the same year, which means approximately For 20 days with the then Minister of Economy, Mr. Dezhpasand – the Commission of the two countries of the Ministry of Economy and Finance – we went to China together with 4 or 5 other people, a small delegation of 7 or 8 or 10 people, that is, on the night of Eid, which was the year of delivery, we were returning on the plane; We went there to meet the Minister of Commerce of China and there he said to go and do whatever you can with the Iranians.  What I am talking about is at the height of the sanctions, that is, we rejected 2017 and we are at the beginning of 2018. Trump had also started the maximum pressure, however, the Chinese president said to do whatever you can with the Iranians, go and do it, and it led us to write something there.

Tasnim: Is this the understanding of 25 years?

** In the end, because we were hit by Corona and the discussions took a long time, the possibility of going back and forth between the two countries was really disrupted. They did not accept Mr. Zarif in the summer of the year at the height of the Corona virus, since 1999, China did not accept foreign guests at all. In an isolated place, the foreign minister received foreign guests like his foreign guests. The quarantine conditions were very strict.

Mr. Zarif went to China and they presented the draft of that document, which led to the signing of this 25-year-old document between the two countries 6-7 months later, when it was Nowruz 1400 became.  A large part of this document is related to the economy, even if it is not directly economic, but it is a comprehensive document of cooperation in the cultural, academic, radio and television fields of the two countries, biotechnology, nanotechnology, telecommunications, military, and security fields. has a significant economic sector.

Tasnim: Your assessment of this model that What is a national case now, for example, the case of relations between Iran and China is followed by one person as the person responsible for the case?

** Look, we believe this should happen. That means it needs a coordinator. However, in the case of Mr. Larijani, it was not possible to say that he was successful.

Tasnim: This shows that if it continued, it would reach a certain place?

** It was able to speed up, maybe it was slow at first, but during the time of Mr. Larijani, it had become like this that several working groups had been created: the working group for commerce, the working group for mining, the working group for transportation. For example, what should we define with the Chinese in the field of mining, what should we define with the Chinese in the field of foreign trade, what should be done in the field of industry and what should be done in the field of transportation; These were discussed in the expert body, something came to a conclusion, they went to an upstream circle, and they turned them into a proposal considering other aspects that were more general. For the Chinese side, it was thought that we can work with each other in the field of mining, for example, up to 80 billion dollars. In all fields, this model works with China.

Tasnim: How do you see the prospects of this agreement? Apparently they were responsible, but we all say that Mr. Mr is very crowded, that is, one thousand and one responsibilities have a reputable person who wants to be so crowded. Know that it only takes more time for this issue because it is not a little.

Tasnim: Do you think this case is not specified. Our outlook for the agreement is not clear?

** In this government there is a serious will to relation with China, we were considered to be one of the delegations where China airports opened to foreigners in March 1401 when Corona was finished in China and the doors opened. President went to China.

as someone who has been almost always on the trips of different presidents since 20 years before Mr. Khatami’s time, where There are bilaterals to go to China somewhere for them. We have nothing to do with bilateral summits. In 2000, Mr. Khatami, who said that then led to the formation of the Iranian -China Chamber, Mr. Khatami went to China at the invitation of the then Chinese president, Mr. Jintao. At the invitation of the President that the protocol is a bilateral thing, the 21st cannon shoots, the flag goes up in the “Tian Square I”; It had happened in 2000 and we had seen it had not happened later.

Iranian Presidents always went to China more than once Mr. Khatami went once, but then Mr. Ahmadinejad, for example, more than 4-5 times, Mr. Rouhani went to China 4-5 times, but was never bilateral, meaning they were invited by the Chinese president. For example, the Summit of the Shanghai Conference, for example, our President’s President visited China alongside him. They went to a multilateral summit along with bilateral meetings of Iran and China, we had no until 2000 until Mr. Raisi went to Mr. Shi Jinping here again and was an independent bilateral meeting and again after twenty -two. The same year was the same as the 21st ball and flag and escort.

Mr Raisi’s two-day trip to China had great achievements Unfortunately we can’t tell. One of our challenges in China is to spend money on the west annually against China in the world, negative propaganda, it is done against Iran and against Iran and China. Negative advertising is not low.

because What happens between Iran and China cannot be defended and said what good things happen. For example, they said that they sold Kish to the Chinese for two years, did you really see a Chinese in Kish? Or, for example, fishing. Whatever we said, a contract shows that Iranian fisheries have written a contract with a Chinese company to catch up, Iran’s fisheries with a person who was responsible for giving a proprietary privilege of fish, and then setting up a Chinese company as a contractor. I have done, the Iranian who had given that privilege, was sweeping the Persian Gulf floor, it had nothing to do with the contractor, and then it was Chinese and Indian, but they were highlighting the Chinese and not saying the Indian. Because the confidentiality cannot be said what aid in the economy at the time of the boycott; To say that America closes it. So we have to remain silent because of the opposition.

Tasnim : Is the municipality’s story naturally similar? Or is bad; But we want to buy an electric bus, buy a wagon, buy an electric taxi, in the world, China is the first word in this area. Today we have no other place in the world that is better than the Chinese, electric bus or electric car or wagon.  If we have somewhere else, the Chinese level or a higher degree will not sell us.

Second, we cannot transfer money, at all in the world We don’t have a bank, for example, buy locomotives from Siemens Germany, buy electric taxis from the US Tesla, it is not an operation at all, so we have to work with the Chinese. The type of payment is part of the country’s confidential affairs in our field of communication with China, because if we say that these channels of our economic breathing becomes harder and tighter.

Anyway, anyone who trade with China knows that we are not sanctions with China anywhere in the world, we have to change many of our billions of intermediaries around the world from Istanbul , Greece, Europe and Canada, or in the United Arab Emirates, that’s why

We even have a lot of things we issue, We have to issue a bill of lading from the Emirates or Oman.  This is why if we are going to strengthen the taxis and bus fleets, we must be able to bypass sanctions. And bypassing the boycott means these intermediary companies. So because of the internal political conflict, national interests should not be slaughtered. This is ugly from an ordinary person, but if the system is responsible for doing so, it must be taken seriously. We should not sacrifice our national interests in foreign relations for our internal conflicts.

Tasnim: There are chains of world values ​​and production chains in the world. That is, we have seen this in the last 20-30 years that China has a complete value chain in various industries. Can Iran join the Chinese currency chain as a country that has something to say in the West Asian region? Align: Justify “> ** I believe it is definitely potentially possible, for the realization of the right time, it may be the right tool but potential. Regardless of what the Iranian side did or what the Chinese side did; I say that the two sides were not very passive. The issue is not just about the value chain of industry or agriculture or production in the Chinese -Iran economy or the role of Iran in that Chinese chain, but I would like to say that the world is a transformation.

If you go back a few centuries, the Portuguese were versatile, colonized, guided the world’s economic and political relations, attacking us the Portuguese castle is still in the south. The works of Spanish history, the French have all this.

in the process of moving the East India Company, the founder of British imperialism dominance for the world And a man of decades of the British has taken place in the world after two world wars; Millions of deaths, billions of damages, after the UK weakened, the American model of dominance over the world begins.  Spanish were more progressive than the Dutch, English were more progressive than the Spanish colonialist and Portuguese. > All of them were more progressive. That is, the current US -led US -led US power over the world. The processes of the 20 -year 30 -year -old are very long -term, meaning China’s globalization model is dominating; Fuel and burning can have late and early.

The model defined in China is a world of public participation; In the global space, of course, it is clear that its lines and lines are shaped by the world’s top economic powers, but the monopoly of that existing existing dominance is destroyed and a model of global cooperation is defined.

Everyone is more influential in their talent and capacity and size in the world, in a stock company model with more money, more shares, a management seat; The world is the same, but micro -shareholders can also sit in the Great Transformation Assembly. 

Iran has found its place in the last 600-700 years and has chosen its place after it happens. In the past, the US has become a superpower and has taken Iran and has eliminated us. Or in the previous British superpower, the East India Company was formed and we had no role in it. For the first time we play a role at the Shanghai Conference, which is one of the symbols of the global change.

we are in Brix member one We have the symbols of change, that is, the economic atmosphere of the world has moved from the atmosphere of a dominant economic superpower country where the center of cooperation is emerging economic powers. After that, five founders were able to join. The same thing happened that the five countries were accepted as members, and the twenty-east of the applicant was only five, one of whom was Iran.

Our relationship with China, our relationship with Russia, was effective in joining Iran in the Shanghai Cooperation Organization in Brix; These relationships that many may have criticized has made us an actor in what is building the future world.

Tasnim: How can this potential capacity become actual capacity?

** This requires our foreign policy environment to calm down; Accept that every country in the international arena has its own troubles. The suffering of others does not want to enter his foreign political sphere. In particular, the dominant power is still in the hands of Americans. We are in transition, the transition has not yet happened. Now a group they are forming that transition try to define those interests of the group, but their idea is the lack of conflict and the collision of powers.

Some powers tend to delay the transition, which has been entered into the Shanghai and Brix environment in the last two or two years. , For example, our relationship with Saudi Arabia has been formed; However, here is an area that should not be a stressful region for the future. Current power is by the way. America, wants to be here, or he is doing it himself or orders his colleagues like Israel. Here is the energy supply area for India, for China, where the future space of the world is supposed to be among the three main powers of India. And are china; All the forecasts you see in the world are so.

So the emerging powers want peace, as if we have to go through the current situation. All that is at our enemy in the world of international organizations, the United Nations of Human Rights, and so on. Given that the transition is to the benefit of our friend.

Tasnim: Political Stability That you suggest that the Chinese are looking for stability and have a conservative behavior.

* * The future world that China wants is a world of less tension, as the tension becomes more massive. If one is supposed to happen in the Persian Gulf region, the ideal is that between Iran, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Egypt, the one who has in the area; Small countries that are subordinate to one of these powers.

The story in this area where we live in West Asia and the Middle East, Iran, Iraq, Turkey, Saudi Arabia and Egypt, the rest are subordinate, so the future world of these countries must cooperate. The power that is building the future world is seeking peace and stability.

Tasnim: What is the stability you say and the convergence that the Chinese intended to do with the conservative spirit of the economic field in Iran? Letters and rules and regulations are not stable; otherwise, as you said, the government and the government are empathy.

I also admit that the unstable economic environment and domestic policy are the influence of the development of bilateral relations with any country. But in my opinion, this is not very important, because the Chinese have invested in more stressful countries like Sudan. In current stressful environments such as Afghanistan-they are working with them, it is important that Iran is not Afghanistan; Iran is not Sudan; Iran is an important country in the region and should be as comfortable as its validity.

Iran is not a country that anyone can ignore, it was in American equations, and they could not look at us. We say that we are not the Islamic Republic, I am saying Iran, throughout history no one can say that Iran was not in the game of powers. The Iranians have made logical resistance throughout history if they felt this game was run by actors who want to dominate it, but if they understand, the future world is to build with them in which the world, someone over another. Have not mastered. We have to go to that side and define ourselves in that game; I mentioned that we went to the Brex and in the Organization of the Sangs Conference, and of course our presence in these institutions must have had the prerequisites that we met.

I believe that rationality has always existed in the system, while many people think is not rationality, but ultimately this system minus the government of the parties, political groups, and so on. It could be and we saw that while the Yemen card and regional clashes are in our hands, we were able to reduce the tension with Saudi Arabia and the UAE, to improve the relationship and go back to something that maybe three years ago. /p>

Tasnim: One of the Southern Coast Development and Development Engines Engineers and Makran Coasts Arises. There are various options to develop it, some of whom are nominated for the coast, believe that the coast of Makran is the North-South Coast, and some believe that Makran can play a complementary role on the Silk Road and the eastern western. Some believe that if we do the right actor, we can play with both. What is your opinion?

** not with both, you can’t Play with both of the great contradictory interests in the world. At least the world is not the case.  You have to stand one side.

But in the Makran subject, I wrote about this 25 years ago, a detailed report that relates to this government even to this government It has no system. Historically, we haven’t taken a good look at development for thousands of years; Look, you go to the street with every level of knowledge now and say that the ten large cities of the world who wants to introduce 10 large cities in the world, 7 of these cities are at least free waters. For example New York or the capital of Germany is Berlin but the main city of Hamburg is Hamburg, or Shanghai or the capital of Spain, Madrid but the main city is Barcelona.

aside Water is a historic opportunity and the most prosperous parts of the world in any country then from Khorramshahr to Chabahar free water is part of the deprived areas. We have historically been hidden from the mountain from the time of the materials that no one hurts us. I do not know the interaction with the world.

Water lip is free means interacting with the world;  See Bushehr, Bandar Abbas, Abadan Khorramshahr, and so on, these people have been in contact with the world. In the last 200 300 years, you have seen that they have a multicultural nature. Because they have a variety of culture.